ITT: aurynsdad Asks Questions of the Vinyl Nerds

[aurynsdad]

While the dynamic range database at http://dr.loudness-war.info/ leaves a little to be desired in terms of sound science, it is still the best tool available to many of us for assessing the dynamic range of various releases. If you do a search for Pearl Jam, you can see that there is no information for the vinyl releases of

No Code
Riot Act
Self-Titled
Backspacer

Seeing as the other PJ releases on vinyl seem to clearly have better dynamic range in that format, it would be good to get info on these releases. I am especially curious about Self-Titled, which I assume to be pretty poor, and Riot Act, which I assume to be pretty good.

The way it works, apparently you take the digital files from your needle drops and upload them to the site, and they do the algorithms for you and post the information. Can anyone help with this?

Thanks,
Kumar

[@SkitchP]

too easy.

[WaitingForBluey]

While the dynamic range database at http://dr.loudness-war.info/ leaves a little to be desired in terms of sound science, it is still the best tool available to many of us for assessing the dynamic range of various releases. If you do a search for Pearl Jam, you can see that there is no information for the vinyl releases of

No Code
Riot Act
Self-Titled
Backspacer

Seeing as the other PJ releases on vinyl seem to clearly have better dynamic range in that format, it would be good to get info on these releases. I am especially curious about Self-Titled, which I assume to be pretty poor, and Riot Act, which I assume to be pretty good.

The way it works, apparently you take the digital files from your needle drops and upload them to the site, and they do the algorithms for you and post the information. Can anyone help with this?

Thanks,
Kumar

I might be interested in doing this... just because I'm sure that No Code and Riot Act should blow the other albums out of the water... but it depends on when I get some free time. Maybe this weekend or next?

[aurynsdad]

awesome! looking forward to the results.

[Wendy Carlos's Twin]

Dynamic range meters are not particularly helpful in regards to vinyl. A needledrop could potentially have more dynamic range, even if it's not significantly different from the CD, just by nature of the media. My advice is to compare the waveforms to get a better idea of what is really going on. Basically, if the vinyl isn't any different from the CD, it will look like a solid chunk even at low level, with some slight peaks extending from the top that can't be seen on the CD waveform (which would thus raise the DR number slightly). A true analog mastering from the original tapes would look totally different from the CD.

[Sgt. Crackpot]

Doesn't it undermine the whole point of this, if the audio wave form is being converted to a digital format anyway? You'd have to create a decent sized lossless file to actually get something worthwhile testing, because a .wav or .mp3 file simply won't cut it.

Where's chud? We need his input here.

[Norah]

bag of dicks is right

[Wendy Carlos's Twin]

Doesn't it undermine the whole point of this, if the audio wave form is being converted to a digital format anyway?

Pretty much. There are too many factors to consider in coloring/changing the sound with vinyl. It's not reliable at all in terms of DR measurements. As I said, the best way to determine if a vinyl is worthless shit is to compare the waveform to the CD. I remember ripping the S/T vinyl and the waveform was basically identical to the CD...just a solid chunk, even though everybody swears that it's "warmer" and "more dynamic", probably because some fucking DR meter told them so.

[Sgt. Crackpot]

bag of dicks is right

Thanks chud.

Man, mentioning your name on here is like displaying the Bat signal. Impressive stuff.

[bodysnatcher]

[Norah]

[aurynsdad]

I just completed my collection of Pearl Jam studio albums on vinyl. I'm using a Denon DP 33-F turntable with a Sumiko Blue Point no. 2 cartridge connected to a NAD 7020e receiver with Mission 70 MKII speakers and a pair of Sennheiser HD 650 headphones. It's basically a beginner audiophile setup built around mostly vintage equipment. I haven't listened to everything yet, but here's what I've noticed so far:

Vs. - Sounds great. No complaints.
Vitalogy - Sounds more alive than the CD, but there is also a decent amount of static at the rocking parts and some vocal sibilance
Riot Act - Same as Vitalogy. This is the big disappointment so far.
Lightning Bolt - Same problem.

I expect surface noise, but I didn't expect the other distortion elements. I'm going to check my cartridge's tracking. The turntable is level. Other records by other artists are definitely sounding a lot better. I know that some of this could be mastering, but I wanted to hear from others who spin these records. Should I be aiming for clarity here, or is it impossible? I am working on a more sophisticated cleaning regimen, but I don't think that's the problem. In the case of Riot Act, this was the first time it had ever been spun.

Being new to vinyl, I get that this kind of thing comes with the territory. But I've invested in a system that should make stuff sound good, and it's frustrating when it sounds better on Spotify.

[@SkitchP]

You should probably have your own subforum.

[Norah]

Those are some nice cans.

[malice]

for best sound quality, i suggest the eddie vedder projector.

[Norah]

seeing that thread made me so happy

[Leatherhead]

I hope this thread actually goes somewhere. I'm mildly interested in vinyl.

[southp]

I suggest you check out the vinyl thread in the "other bands" section which is probably a good place for this type of question.

It basically sounds like your cart is misaligned or set for at an improper tracking weight for your cart. If it's only near the end of a side it's the alignment. If it's throughout the record then it's the counterweight which needs to be set for the Sumiko's suggested weight.

[aurynsdad]

I suggest you check out the vinyl thread in the "other bands" section which is probably a good place for this type of question.

It basically sounds like your cart is misaligned or set for at an improper tracking weight for your cart. If it's only near the end of a side it's the alignment. If it's throughout the record then it's the counterweight which needs to be set for the Sumiko's suggested weight.

Thanks.

The recommended tracking force for the cart is 1.6-2.0, and we have it set at 2.0

The guy who set this up for me has all the proper tools for alignment, and I watched him meticulously do it, test, re-calibrate, and test again. He swears it's aligned correctly.

It definitely seems to get worse as the side plays, but I had been attributing that to stylus dust collection.

I'll check out that other thread, but this is at it's root a Pearl Jam question, as I am not aware of how these records *should* sound. That's why I posted it here.

[McParadigm]

For a band that loves (loved) vinyl, I was never super impressed with Pearl Jam's wax renderings. They always, even in the very best of times, smelt of afterthought.