Red Mosquito

I think I've discovered a reason that I dislike the middle albums like Binaural and Riot Act....

Pearl Jam in their earlier years is so amazing to me because of the interesting makeup of their songs. On the first 3 albums there is a remarkable lack of repetition. I take a song like Better Man for example. There is not one part of this song that really repeats. The song is constantly taking you to new places, and moving. You have the quiet verse, then the quiet chorus, then the drums kick in and the whole feel changes for another verse, and then another chorus, which feels completely different than the last ones. Finally there's that awesome modified call and repeat chorus, and then that amaaaaazing BUM....BUM....BUM BUM....BUM....BUM BUM...BUM...BUM *AWESOME DRUM FILL* into that climax. Then there's one more quick chorus which I guess is the same as the one before, but its short, and then it goes into that awesome ending with the OH's and the guitar solo.

The song's composition is just great, and it really takes you on a ride. Corduroy is mostly like this too (It doesnt even repeat the chorus lyrics) with that climax in the breakdown, the interesting rises and falls, the instrumental sections....MOST songs in their catalog at this point are like that honestly. You never get bored listening to a song. Thinking also of Animal, where the final chorus gets a roaring guitar solo under it....

They just had such great songwriting just in structure in their first 3 albums...

But then I go to Binaural and we have songs like Light Years and Nothing As It Seems that just seem to drag on forever....I find myself bored in the second half of the song, it feels like it goes on and on and on. Its another reason I would hate hearing that album live. I just think at some point they lost that fresh feel, and their songs started dragging with repetitive choruses and endings.

mikejasond wrote: and their songs started dragging with repetitive choruses

You mean like:

Evenflow
Jeremy
Dissident
Alive
Animal
Daughter
STBC
Not For You

?

This thread reminded me of Tom Green.

Vocal repetitions added into live performances do annoy me sometimes.

Two riders were approaching
Two riders were approaching
Two riders were approaching

E.H. Ruddock wrote:

mikejasond wrote: and their songs started dragging with repetitive choruses

You mean like:

Evenflow
Jeremy
Dissident
Alive
Animal
Daughter
STBC
Not For You

?

I disagree that the structure of these songs is flat/boring/uninteresting. Some of them do repeat their choruses but many of them do it in very different ways (Animal the background music changes to add crazy guitar solos, Dissident the vocal melodies/intensities change, Not For You builds in intensity as well). Alive has repeated choruses but much else changes as the song builds it has interesting middle sections and it doesnt end on repeating the chorus over and over, it ends on a long guitar solo and even the music/drums/vocal adlibs/etc change throughout the course of the solos

Daughter does have repeated choruses too but I also feel the song takes you on an interesting journey, and doesnt overstay its welcome.

A lot of these songs I feel like move faster, take you to more places, and don't hang around the same space for long.

So in other words, you just don't like slow, moody, atmospheric songs?

E.H. Ruddock wrote:So in other words, you just don't like slow, moody, atmospheric songs?

That's not necessarily true, I dont like songs that drag on and on and on repeating themselves.

I just think one of Pearl Jam's strengths was their songs were always moving you to new places. I think Better Man is a brilliantly constructed song, one of the best Ive heard in how it never returns to the same place and takes you on a journey.

tragabigzanda wrote:It sounds like you're more concerned with the dynamics than the repetition of parts. Those older records had very dynamic songs that often started at a low simmer and slowly built to a raging boil. Most of the songs on Riot Act and Binaural don't do that -- they're fairly static in their energy.

This also might be it.

The way Better Man builds to its climax is so good. It really separated Pearl Jam from other bands

I don't think you put much thought into this one, mjd

shut up

So comparing Light Years to Even Flow (another song with repeated choruses)

Light Years is a FIVE MINUTE song, and by 1:42 you've heard basically everything there is to hear in it. Another thing worth pointing out is that the verses and choruses, while different, do have a static slow-moving feel to them, they sort of bleed into each other so you don't really get a sense of arriving somewhere new. There's a short instrumental bridge....it's pretty good I guess? It also doesn't really take us anywhere, it mostly repeats the same feel from the rest of the song without vocals. And then you exit out of it right back into the choruses again. By the third chorus Im bored. There's a light solo over the same background music we've heard in the background for five minutes.

Even Flow...first of all, I'd say the way the opening instrumental quiets down and changes its guitar tone into the first verse is more interesting than anything heard in Light Years. This song has a very subtle build which is very cool because you don't even notice it until the second verse resets you and you're like "whoa". Up until the second chorus it hasn't gone anywhere true, but then theres that "YEAH!" and then you're somewhere new. Cool solo, stripped down instrumentals with prominent drums sounds great. Then you go into the drum and bass section with little guitar noodling, and then slowly building back to that original riff. Building, building, building, building, then BOOM chorus again. This whole section is way more interesting than anything in Light Years and as a result makes the last chorus mean more. We end with a fresh part too.

I don't think Even Flow is their most interesting song but I do think that middle section makes it much more interesting than Light Years.

That's not what I said you fucking liar.

I also think this is why I like Thumbing My Way. While it isnt a very dynamic song, it is constantly moving and changing key and that keeps thing interesting for me.

I said what I said. There's nothing more or less to it.

mikejasond wrote:I think I've discovered a reason that I dislike the middle albums like Binaural and Riot Act....

Pearl Jam in their earlier years is so amazing to me because of the interesting makeup of their songs. On the first 3 albums there is a remarkable lack of repetition. I take a song like Better Man for example. There is not one part of this song that really repeats. The song is constantly taking you to new places, and moving. You have the quiet verse, then the quiet chorus, then the drums kick in and the whole feel changes for another verse, and then another chorus, which feels completely different than the last ones. Finally there's that awesome modified call and repeat chorus, and then that amaaaaazing BUM....BUM....BUM BUM....BUM....BUM BUM...BUM...BUM *AWESOME DRUM FILL* into that climax. Then there's one more quick chorus which I guess is the same as the one before, but its short, and then it goes into that awesome ending with the OH's and the guitar solo.

The song's composition is just great, and it really takes you on a ride. Corduroy is mostly like this too (It doesnt even repeat the chorus lyrics) with that climax in the breakdown, the interesting rises and falls, the instrumental sections....MOST songs in their catalog at this point are like that honestly. You never get bored listening to a song. Thinking also of Animal, where the final chorus gets a roaring guitar solo under it....

They just had such great songwriting just in structure in their first 3 albums...

But then I go to Binaural and we have songs like Light Years and Nothing As It Seems that just seem to drag on forever....I find myself bored in the second half of the song, it feels like it goes on and on and on. Its another reason I would hate hearing that album live. I just think at some point they lost that fresh feel, and their songs started dragging with repetitive choruses and endings.

Also relistening, I had this a little wrong. The call and response is after the SHE LOVED HIM part, there are no repeated parts at all in this song. Pretty impressive

SHould i bother reading the header post?

Strat wrote:SHould i bother reading the header post?

yes