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Re: Best of Grunge Tournament 1991-1995
Posted: Tue August 01, 2017 4:55 pm
by PHATJ
You dolts will complain about everything. Thanks for putting so much thought, time, and effort into these tournaments, stip. I think the tournaments are tons of fun and I appreciate it.
Re: Best of Grunge Tournament 1991-1995
Posted: Tue August 01, 2017 5:13 pm
by Jammer XCI
Stip man, that is insanely ambitious and I love ya for making this a tournament.
I'm highly anticipating, because I actually know these songs. That said, Screaming Trees need to be in, The Aeroplane Flies High box set should also be in, Bush and Silverchair stay the fuck out.
Re: Best of Grunge Tournament 1991-1995
Posted: Tue August 01, 2017 5:29 pm
by Anders
Grunge is used in at least four ways IMO
1. All rock/punk/metal bands from the Seattle-area starting with Green River, and with no new bands being included after the very early 90s (no new bands after 91). Even if these bands release albums now, they will often be talked about as grunge. STP and SP are not included here, but Mudhoney, Screaming Trees and Mother Love Bone are huge, though many will argue MLB was not grunge enough.
2. An expansion of the first paragraph, including bands from outside of Seattle from the same period (but
new bands accepted from 84-96), that all played a sort of grungy alternative rock. Usually critically acclaimed bands are added from outside, other candidates are scorned. This is the most used definition., where f.ex. Dinosaur Jr is a grunge band. STP and SP enter here.
3. The early to mid 90s (91-96), where a few bands had massive success with alternative rock. Part Seattle, part music, part success, and definitely timing, tied these bands together. It's the big four, and then STP and SP can be debated in. This is where Ed is the last grunge man standing articles come from. This is a normal definition in mainstream media. It is also the basis for this tournament, the big six.
4. The worst definition, where anything goes as long as they are in the first three paragraphs or their music resembles the big four. Lots of terrible 90s bands. Of course you can discuss if Bush, Blind Melon, Candlebox and Silverchair should first enter through brackets two or four.
Re: Best of Grunge Tournament 1991-1995
Posted: Tue August 01, 2017 5:29 pm
by bada
At least in this fast paced and ever changing world one can always find comfort in coming to RM and watching everyone forever argue over what is and isn't Grunge.
Re: Best of Grunge Tournament 1991-1995
Posted: Tue August 01, 2017 5:39 pm
by TremorJam
I remember reading somewhere around 1996-1997 that the bands that came after the initial Grunge movement (Bush, Silverchair, etc) were called Scrunge. I think it was Rolling Stone or Spin maybe? I honestly just call it all Rock n Roll, but the Grunge term will never go away. I've begrudgingly accepted it. I even called my own music "Hippie Grunge" when asked by club/bar owners what kind of music I played.
Before Alternative became a thing anything outside of the popular confines was called College Music.
Marketing...
Re: Best of Grunge Tournament 1991-1995
Posted: Tue August 01, 2017 6:00 pm
by doone
EJ wrote:Nah, just rename it and add 1996 as a bookend. "Stip's Big Six Tournament, 1991-96"
Anyway, I look forward to it.
Re: Best of Grunge Tournament 1991-1995
Posted: Tue August 01, 2017 6:04 pm
by stip
Jammer XCI wrote:Stip man, that is insanely ambitious and I love ya for making this a tournament.
I'm highly anticipating, because I actually know these songs. That said, Screaming Trees need to be in, The Aeroplane Flies High box set should also be in, Bush and Silverchair stay the fuck out.
leaving out the trees really hurt.
Re: Best of Grunge Tournament 1991-1995
Posted: Tue August 01, 2017 6:24 pm
by E.H. Ruddock
what about creed amirite
Re: Best of Grunge and Smashing Pumpkins Tournament 1991-199
Posted: Tue August 01, 2017 6:50 pm
by Self
You can't make fun of Creed when Glycerine is your favorite grunge song.
Re: Best of Grunge Tournament 1991-1995
Posted: Tue August 01, 2017 6:59 pm
by stip
I debated the inclusion of Sixteen Stone and Live Through This
Re: Best of Grunge Tournament 1991-1995
Posted: Tue August 01, 2017 7:23 pm
by Anders
There are probably at least twenty albums that deserve to be in more than those two, but I think you made smart choices with the bands you did include.
Re: Best of Grunge Tournament 1991-1995
Posted: Tue August 01, 2017 7:36 pm
by epilogue
stip wrote:durdencommatyler wrote:PHATJ wrote:durdencommatyler wrote:I get that you've got this math problem, stip. But I hate that you're excluding so many album tracks. It infuriates me no end!
The album tracks he's throwing away would all lose 25-2.
Maybe. But it's revisionist history and I hate it. And how do we know they'd lose? You people will vote for anything.
they are the pry, to's of their respective albums.
I don't know what that means, Stip.
Re: Best of Grunge Tournament 1991-1995
Posted: Tue August 01, 2017 7:40 pm
by Anders
durdencommatyler wrote:stip wrote:durdencommatyler wrote:PHATJ wrote:durdencommatyler wrote:I get that you've got this math problem, stip. But I hate that you're excluding so many album tracks. It infuriates me no end!
The album tracks he's throwing away would all lose 25-2.
Maybe. But it's revisionist history and I hate it. And how do we know they'd lose? You people will vote for anything.
they are the pry, to's of their respective albums.
I don't know what that means, Stip.
Filler tracks.
Re: Best of Grunge Tournament 1991-1995
Posted: Tue August 01, 2017 8:06 pm
by epilogue
Anders wrote:durdencommatyler wrote:stip wrote:durdencommatyler wrote:PHATJ wrote:durdencommatyler wrote:I get that you've got this math problem, stip. But I hate that you're excluding so many album tracks. It infuriates me no end!
The album tracks he's throwing away would all lose 25-2.
Maybe. But it's revisionist history and I hate it. And how do we know they'd lose? You people will vote for anything.
they are the pry, to's of their respective albums.
I don't know what that means, Stip.
Filler tracks.
I don't know what that means, Anders.
Re: Best of Grunge Tournament 1991-1995
Posted: Tue August 01, 2017 8:08 pm
by Jorge
durdencommatyler wrote:Anders wrote:durdencommatyler wrote:stip wrote:durdencommatyler wrote:PHATJ wrote:durdencommatyler wrote:I get that you've got this math problem, stip. But I hate that you're excluding so many album tracks. It infuriates me no end!
The album tracks he's throwing away would all lose 25-2.
Maybe. But it's revisionist history and I hate it. And how do we know they'd lose? You people will vote for anything.
they are the pry, to's of their respective albums.
I don't know what that means, Stip.
Filler tracks.
I don't know what that means, Anders.
the pry, to's of their respective albums.
Re: Best of Grunge Tournament 1991-1995
Posted: Tue August 01, 2017 8:14 pm
by epilogue
theplatypus wrote:durdencommatyler wrote:Anders wrote:durdencommatyler wrote:stip wrote:durdencommatyler wrote:PHATJ wrote:durdencommatyler wrote:I get that you've got this math problem, stip. But I hate that you're excluding so many album tracks. It infuriates me no end!
The album tracks he's throwing away would all lose 25-2.
Maybe. But it's revisionist history and I hate it. And how do we know they'd lose? You people will vote for anything.
they are the pry, to's of their respective albums.
I don't know what that means, Stip.
Filler tracks.
I don't know what that means, Anders.
the pry, to's of their respective albums.
I love Pry To. And I love Wet My Bed. Those songs, though probably not likely to win championships, should still be included. It seems arbitrary to just exclude songs because Stip thinks they're throw away tracks. I think Corduroy is a super overrated song. Maybe it shouldn't be in the tournament. And why is Aye Davanita so much more deserving than 12 Gracious Melodies or Endless Nameless?
Ultimately, I'm still gonna have fun with this tournament. But leaving songs off is far more egregious to me than including Smashing Pumpkins in the tournament. I'm making my voice heard now because I can. When the tournament starts, I mention it. But it just feels fucking arbitrary and stupid, to me. Those songs are hardly filler.
Re: Best of Grunge Tournament 1991-1995
Posted: Tue August 01, 2017 8:16 pm
by washing machine
I'm with DCT I theory but I'm with stip in practice.
Re: Best of Grunge Tournament 1991-1995
Posted: Tue August 01, 2017 8:16 pm
by epilogue
It's just a big pet peeve of mine. I'm sure I'm overreacting.
Re: Best of Grunge Tournament 1991-1995
Posted: Tue August 01, 2017 8:18 pm
by washing machine
Though "Endless, Nameless" should be included and I think I'd vote for it against more than several STP songs, a handful of Smashing Pumpkins songs and most of Ten.
Re: Best of Grunge Tournament 1991-1995
Posted: Tue August 01, 2017 8:29 pm
by stip
I started out with all of them included. But right now I have a hard cap with 256 songs. So it's always triage - it's not so much whether or not they should be there. What would you take out instead?