Red Mosquito

LoathedVermin72 wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:

LoathedVermin72 wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

LoathedVermin72 wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

LoathedVermin72 wrote:Linklater is the goddamn worst.

You like the Before movies. He's not the worst.

I do, but he's still the worst. Especially listening to him talk. Or watching his movies outside of the Before trilogy.

Watching him talk is strange. He's an odd duck for sure. And his manner doesn't reflect his art. I would never imagine that guy made some of the movie's he's made. It's really interesting.

Oh, I would.

Yea durds, I'd say this look like D&C part 2, and if you didn't like the first one, there's no way you'd like this one.

What don't you like about his movies, LV?

One thing I've come to believe after digesting a lot of his interviews is that he had a very easy -- almost charmed -- upbringing. It sounds like he was incredibly popular, very smart, excelled at sports, and got a lot of tail. And I wonder how much that easy path to adulthood has colored the stories he tells.

I think his movies are largely shallow and grating (at best). His style is dull and prosaic. The stuff he thinks is deep, I think is empty. If I hear him talk about how profound "time" is again I'm going to lose my shit.

Steve Albini wrote:Whenever there's active promotion on the part of somebody else, whenever I see somebody all dolled up for a fancy photograph and someone's handing out flyers or whenever there's active promotion for something like that, as an imposition on my day, I hate all those people and I want them to fail. I have a visceral reaction to advertising and promotion. There's just something about salesmanship that grates on me on a very base level and I react very negatively towards it. I want those people to suffer and I want their enterprises to fail.

Steve Albini wrote:Whenever there's active promotion on the part of somebody else, whenever I see somebody all dolled up for a fancy photograph and someone's handing out flyers or whenever there's active promotion for something like that, as an imposition on my day, I hate all those people and I want them to fail. I have a visceral reaction to advertising and promotion. There's just something about salesmanship that grates on me on a very base level and I react very negatively towards it. I want those people to suffer and I want their enterprises to fail.

LoathedVermin72 wrote:On top of all that, I think, even just in technical and dramatic terms, he is a bad director. Like, in terms of his shot selections, blocking, etc. He often makes baffling choices. For example, the scene in Bernie when the protagonist gets arrested. He chooses to shoot the cops coming in, with Bernie's face turned to see them. His face, what he is expressing as this is happening, cannot be seen during this moment. That is an appalling, confounding dramatic/character choice. The impact of that scene is completely lost when filmed from that angle. It's one of the most poorly directed moments I've ever seen in a movie.

tragabigzanda wrote:I just like how he tells stories. There's hardly any camera movement, there's a lot of 2-shots or wide shots, there's almost never any music cues, and events often happen without any major consequences or drastic turn in plot. I find him to be a very non-judgmental filmmaker; his characters always strike me as very real, because they exist in a very realistic world ...

durdencommatyler wrote:

LoathedVermin72 wrote:On top of all that, I think, even just in technical and dramatic terms, he is a bad director. Like, in terms of his shot selections, blocking, etc. He often makes baffling choices. For example, the scene in Bernie when the protagonist gets arrested. He chooses to shoot the cops coming in, with Bernie's face turned to see them. His face, what he is expressing as this is happening, cannot be seen during this moment. That is an appalling, confounding dramatic/character choice. The impact of that scene is completely lost when filmed from that angle. It's one of the most poorly directed moments I've ever seen in a movie.

Yeah, I completely disagree. That moment definitely landed for me.

tragabigzanda wrote:I do think that Bernie is one of his worst movies, and probably my least-favorite overall. Much of it falls flat because of the very choices you're describing.

durdencommatyler wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:I just like how he tells stories. There's hardly any camera movement, there's a lot of 2-shots or wide shots, there's almost never any music cues, and events often happen without any major consequences or drastic turn in plot. I find him to be a very non-judgmental filmmaker; his characters always strike me as very real, because they exist in a very realistic world ...

That's why I'm so drawn to him as well. T realness and his dramatic sense, for sure, but the non-judgmental quality is the thing I think that draws me to his work above all else.

durdencommatyler wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:I do think that Bernie is one of his worst movies, and probably my least-favorite overall. Much of it falls flat because of the very choices you're describing.

That's interesting because outside of the Before movies and maybe Tape, Bernie is my favorite of his films. I think it's brilliant and works on just about every level.

LoathedVermin72 wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

LoathedVermin72 wrote:On top of all that, I think, even just in technical and dramatic terms, he is a bad director. Like, in terms of his shot selections, blocking, etc. He often makes baffling choices. For example, the scene in Bernie when the protagonist gets arrested. He chooses to shoot the cops coming in, with Bernie's face turned to see them. His face, what he is expressing as this is happening, cannot be seen during this moment. That is an appalling, confounding dramatic/character choice. The impact of that scene is completely lost when filmed from that angle. It's one of the most poorly directed moments I've ever seen in a movie.

Yeah, I completely disagree. That moment definitely landed for me.

i am sorry, you are wrong

LoathedVermin72 wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:I just like how he tells stories. There's hardly any camera movement, there's a lot of 2-shots or wide shots, there's almost never any music cues, and events often happen without any major consequences or drastic turn in plot. I find him to be a very non-judgmental filmmaker; his characters always strike me as very real, because they exist in a very realistic world ...

That's why I'm so drawn to him as well. T realness and his dramatic sense, for sure, but the non-judgmental quality is the thing I think that draws me to his work above all else.

Non-judgmental? Please. Have you guys seen Boyhood? The way the conservative character was portrayed? Give me a break.

durdencommatyler wrote:

LoathedVermin72 wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

LoathedVermin72 wrote:On top of all that, I think, even just in technical and dramatic terms, he is a bad director. Like, in terms of his shot selections, blocking, etc. He often makes baffling choices. For example, the scene in Bernie when the protagonist gets arrested. He chooses to shoot the cops coming in, with Bernie's face turned to see them. His face, what he is expressing as this is happening, cannot be seen during this moment. That is an appalling, confounding dramatic/character choice. The impact of that scene is completely lost when filmed from that angle. It's one of the most poorly directed moments I've ever seen in a movie.

Yeah, I completely disagree. That moment definitely landed for me.

i am sorry, you are wrong

Wouldn't be the first time, friend.

Though, it really doesn't surprise me that you'd be turned off by that kind of directorial choice.

durdencommatyler wrote:

LoathedVermin72 wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:I just like how he tells stories. There's hardly any camera movement, there's a lot of 2-shots or wide shots, there's almost never any music cues, and events often happen without any major consequences or drastic turn in plot. I find him to be a very non-judgmental filmmaker; his characters always strike me as very real, because they exist in a very realistic world ...

That's why I'm so drawn to him as well. T realness and his dramatic sense, for sure, but the non-judgmental quality is the thing I think that draws me to his work above all else.

Non-judgmental? Please. Have you guys seen Boyhood? The way the conservative character was portrayed? Give me a break.

Boyhood isn't the best movie, verm. Outside of the way its shot, the process of making the film, it's largely uninteresting. I'd put it at the bottom of his work, right below Dazed and Confused (at least that one achieved what it was aiming for, even if I didn't like it).

Steve Albini wrote:Whenever there's active promotion on the part of somebody else, whenever I see somebody all dolled up for a fancy photograph and someone's handing out flyers or whenever there's active promotion for something like that, as an imposition on my day, I hate all those people and I want them to fail. I have a visceral reaction to advertising and promotion. There's just something about salesmanship that grates on me on a very base level and I react very negatively towards it. I want those people to suffer and I want their enterprises to fail.

Steve Albini wrote:Whenever there's active promotion on the part of somebody else, whenever I see somebody all dolled up for a fancy photograph and someone's handing out flyers or whenever there's active promotion for something like that, as an imposition on my day, I hate all those people and I want them to fail. I have a visceral reaction to advertising and promotion. There's just something about salesmanship that grates on me on a very base level and I react very negatively towards it. I want those people to suffer and I want their enterprises to fail.

tragabigzanda wrote:

LoathedVermin72 wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

LoathedVermin72 wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

LoathedVermin72 wrote:On top of all that, I think, even just in technical and dramatic terms, he is a bad director. Like, in terms of his shot selections, blocking, etc. He often makes baffling choices. For example, the scene in Bernie when the protagonist gets arrested. He chooses to shoot the cops coming in, with Bernie's face turned to see them. His face, what he is expressing as this is happening, cannot be seen during this moment. That is an appalling, confounding dramatic/character choice. The impact of that scene is completely lost when filmed from that angle. It's one of the most poorly directed moments I've ever seen in a movie.

Yeah, I completely disagree. That moment definitely landed for me.

i am sorry, you are wrong

Wouldn't be the first time, friend.

Though, it really doesn't surprise me that you'd be turned off by that kind of directorial choice.

Yeah, this seems like an obvious clash in what we are drawn to. The type of "naturalistic" style you guys are describing just comes off like a boring lack of personality to me, especially since I don't find his movies to be naturalistic at all, but in fact very staged and stilted.

I don't know which myth is bigger: that an absence of stylistic flamboyance is tantamount to realism or naturalism, or that realism and naturalism are even good traits in the first place.

The indie movie world is full of directors who try to take a naturalistic approach. Apart from maybe Kelly Reichardt, I don't know that anyone succeeds as well as Linklater.

LoathedVermin72 wrote:I don't know which myth is bigger: that an absence of stylistic flamboyance is tantamount to realism or naturalism, or that realism and naturalism are even good traits in the first place.

tragabigzanda wrote:

LoathedVermin72 wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:I just like how he tells stories. There's hardly any camera movement, there's a lot of 2-shots or wide shots, there's almost never any music cues, and events often happen without any major consequences or drastic turn in plot. I find him to be a very non-judgmental filmmaker; his characters always strike me as very real, because they exist in a very realistic world ...

That's why I'm so drawn to him as well. T realness and his dramatic sense, for sure, but the non-judgmental quality is the thing I think that draws me to his work above all else.

Non-judgmental? Please. Have you guys seen Boyhood? The way the conservative character was portrayed? Give me a break.

Sorry, to which conservative character are you referring? The only ones I can recall are his new grandparents when Ethan Hawke remarries, and I thought they were portrayed beautifully -- they read the bible and enjoyed guns, but there was no judgment around either of those things. They were just normal people who had different interests than what Mason was used to.

LoathedVermin72 wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:I do think that Bernie is one of his worst movies, and probably my least-favorite overall. Much of it falls flat because of the very choices you're describing.

That's interesting because outside of the Before movies and maybe Tape, Bernie is my favorite of his films. I think it's brilliant and works on just about every level.

ugh, Tape is the fucking worst