Red Mosquito

Is it not twice?

Once in lotr and once in the hobbit?

It'll happen again at the battle of the five armies

dimejinky99 wrote:Is it not twice?

Once in lotr and once in the hobbit?

It'll happen again at the battle of the five armies

Twice in LOTR: one helped Gandalf escape the tower, then they saved Frodo and Sam. right?

oh i guess they showed up again at that last battle. Jesus, these are the real heroes! Where is their story!?

BurtReynolds wrote:

dimejinky99 wrote:Is it not twice?

Once in lotr and once in the hobbit?

It'll happen again at the battle of the five armies

Twice in LOTR: one helped Gandalf escape the tower, then they saved Frodo and Sam. right?

oh i guess they showed up again at that last battle. Jesus, these are the real heroes! Where is their story!?

I'm not sure he ever wrote anything of depth or standalone about the eagles, but in my study of middle earth they haven't been a topic.

WTF exactly is Tom Bombadil?? The great unanswerable question

The eagles are a dues ex machina pure and simple. He uses them four times that I can recall and each time it's to save the day.

Eagles = United States?

stip wrote:Eagles = United States?

Doubt it - there's no mention of oil in Middle Earth

stip wrote:Eagles = United States?

like... the band?

I was serious. Weren't these stories (lotr, anyway) influenced by ww2?

So the Americans, who could have made all this simpler by getting involved right away, show up to save the day after their allies exhaust themselves doing all the hard work?

stip wrote:I was serious. Weren't these stories (lotr, anyway) influenced by ww2?

So the Americans, who could have made all this simpler by getting involved right away, show up to save the day after their allies exhaust themselves doing all the hard work?

Weird I had a similar thought while I was making dinner tonight though it would have to be about ww1. Basically the Americans are like the Eagles refusing to enter the war until they have a change of heart at the 11th hour....or since Tolkien was all religious and such the eagles represent the hand of God when our heroes get in over their heads? I don't know.

stip wrote:I was serious. Weren't these stories (lotr, anyway) influenced by ww2?

So the Americans, who could have made all this simpler by getting involved right away, show up to save the day after their allies exhaust themselves doing all the hard work?

I don't know. mr. stip. but I do know that Tolkien hated allegory, and emphatically denied specific correlations between topical events and his writing of the time - he notes it at the beginning of the LOTR trilogy. take that for whatever that's worth

stip wrote:I was serious. Weren't these stories (lotr, anyway) influenced by ww2?

So the Americans, who could have made all this simpler by getting involved right away, show up to save the day after their allies exhaust themselves doing all the hard work?

i've heard that before.

malice wrote:

stip wrote:I was serious. Weren't these stories (lotr, anyway) influenced by ww2?

So the Americans, who could have made all this simpler by getting involved right away, show up to save the day after their allies exhaust themselves doing all the hard work?

I don't know. mr. stip. but I do know that Tolkien hated allegory, and emphatically denied specific correlations between topical events and his writing of the time - he notes it at the beginning of the LOTR trilogy. take that for whatever that's worth

I've read that, but I've read the other argument as well. I will defer to dime or someone who knows this stuff way better

stip wrote:

malice wrote:

stip wrote:I was serious. Weren't these stories (lotr, anyway) influenced by ww2?

So the Americans, who could have made all this simpler by getting involved right away, show up to save the day after their allies exhaust themselves doing all the hard work?

I don't know. mr. stip. but I do know that Tolkien hated allegory, and emphatically denied specific correlations between topical events and his writing of the time - he notes it at the beginning of the LOTR trilogy. take that for whatever that's worth

I've read that, but I've read the other argument as well. I will defer to dime or someone who knows this stuff way better

you're a reasonable chap

Malice is correct. Tolkien was asked many times if the books were an allegory of the War(either of them) and having been in the trenches in WWI and lost all his best friends in that same war, it's not something he'd do. Set up a whole world and multiple languages and history, just to be allegorical? No.

Here's what he said, though I have read him saying the same thing with much more venom.
“I cordially dislike allegory in all its manifestations, and always have done so since I grew old and wary enough to detect its presence. I much prefer history – true or feigned– with its varied applicability to the thought and experience of readers. I think that many confuse applicability with allegory, but the one resides in the freedom of the reader, and the other in the purposed domination of the author.”

dimejinky99 wrote:“I cordially dislike allegory in all its manifestations

What an absolute delight this guy was

look at the stiffs who populate his world.

dimejinky99 wrote:Malice is correct. Tolkien was asked many times if the books were an allegory of the War(either of them) and having been in the trenches in WWI and lost all his best friends in that same war, it's not something he'd do. Set up a whole world and multiple languages and history, just to be allegorical? No.

Here's what he said, though I have read him saying the same thing with much more venom.
“I cordially dislike allegory in all its manifestations, and always have done so since I grew old and wary enough to detect its presence. I much prefer history – true or feigned– with its varied applicability to the thought and experience of readers. I think that many confuse applicability with allegory, but the one resides in the freedom of the reader, and the other in the purposed domination of the author.”

Hence his hatred of the Chronicles of Narnia, infinitely better books (though completely different) than the Lord of the Rings.

God, the only thing I found less enjoyable than reading the Hobbit was Chronicles. And then some cunt of an elementary school teacher made us eat turkish delight. Shit.

he was great friends with cs lewis though. I didn't know he hated the Narnia books.

McParadigm wrote:

dimejinky99 wrote:“I cordially dislike allegory in all its manifestations

What an absolute delight this guy was

agree