Red Mosquito

Posted: **Mon August 23, 2021 3:06 pm**

I dont think i paid attention to their music. I also dont quite like Alain´s solo career, but he is a wonderful collaborator...and for Chris it was always important to have one.

Posted: **Mon August 23, 2021 3:48 pm**

liebzz wrote:
Kevin Davis wrote:
liebzz wrote:What we get is a moderately straight forward album that really focuses on Cornell and his vocals - as a straight crooner - over mind blowing textures and performances.
I've been enjoying your journey as I enjoy them all, but I gotta say, I don't hear this at all -- this is nothing like what I would describe as a "crooner" record, and even when the songs are easy on the ears there are turns and dissonances in them that strike me as anything but straightforward. There are melodies and musical patterns on this album that are downright mazelike, a merging of the musical language of Soundgarden with the aesthetic language of a '70's psychedelic folk album, with occasional flashes of R&B and soul.

I like all of Soundgarden's albums for the most part, and am less keen on the solo projects, Audioslave, etc., but for my money, Down on the Upside and Euphoria Morning represent the twin peaks of Cornell's artistry -- two sides of the same coin, with shades of each one very much present in the other. I've agreed with the comments about it being a shame that SG split right as it seemed like all these new musical possibilities were coming available to them, but if memory serves, part of what drove their breakup in '97 was precisely that -- Cornell's desire for the band to move beyond heavy rock and further toward the kinds of things he'd eventually do on EM --- and I think you can hear a few moments on DOTU where he gets his way. But on EM he is able to really explore them without compromise, and I think it really conveys a sense of vision and artistry. One of the great ones for me.
That is a fascinatingly different take. Part of it could be that you’ve lived in the album longer, so perhaps you’ve just been able to pull more out. To me, I hear Chris well over the rest of the group - as in this is very much a solo album, even if the band is doing good things in there. Soundgarden to me involved a very different interplay where your attention is sort of pushes and pulled from place to place within the song and sometimes your focus could change in the same moment to different spots (sometimes listens you focus on maybe the vocals and the next one you catch something Matt or Kim is doing).

I couldn’t really imagine Soundgarden fully embracing this record as a band, but I don’t think less of it because of that, nor would I know Chris Cornell for what he came up with here. I wouldn’t see this as a peak though, which so far for me is from TotD & Badmotorfinger through Superunknown and into Down on the Upside.

I don't mean to suggest that the focus is ever on the other musicians necessarily, though I like how they support the songs, and there are certainly things you can get from a SG record that you'd never get from a CC solo album. I just mean that there is a lot of musical sophistication and depth to the compositions; the album is a showcase for Cornell's mind and vision as much as it is for his good voice. Some of his later albums feel like the kind of "middle of the road album for a singer with a nice voice"-type record it seems like you described here, but this one is as much about the internal workings and shapes of the songs (if not the ensemble performances) as it is about CC's golden pipes.

Posted: **Mon August 23, 2021 5:27 pm**

Oh, I agree with that. I think these are very interesting compositions though not as complex as what he was doing with Soundgarden, or at least that is not the impression I got from it. Complex doesn’t mean better, though I do prefer the above noted Soundgarden albums. I don’t think this is tossed off ideas at all. On my listens, the first song I sort of conjure up as a centerpiece is When I’m Down, not sure why other than this is a tremendous break from Soundgarden - and that is more less ballad like, and Flutter Girl, which has a sort of groove that reminds me of Stone Temple Pilots in that Tiny Music/No. 4 era, but done better for my tastes than that in particular (not a critique of STP just a vision that comes to mind).

If I were to say which songs took me to a whole different and great place, Pillow or Your Bones and Steel Rain were that for me, but I think it has to do with the music and singing combined - a good meshing there of the two.

Posted: **Mon August 23, 2021 5:29 pm**

I can see or hear Kim doing all of great stuff over a lot of those songs.

Posted: **Mon August 23, 2021 5:35 pm**

Maybe I am pessimistic but I can only hear Kim starting to try to lay something on top, and then taking his guitar and throwing it at Chris.

Edit: to me it would be like when Tom Morrello played on 41 Shots (American Skin) and threw in that wild 80s solo (or was it The Ghost of Tom Joad…or both?). It just didn’t fit. That’s not to say it’s bad, but that it doesn’t strike me as something that would inspire Kim Thayil’s style.

Posted: **Mon August 23, 2021 5:48 pm**

Of course it would be a different song, but there are pretty similar stuff happening on Mission, Pillow Of Your Bones, or even Flutter Girl that the band could have done for sure.

Like i said, it seems like a possible logical continuation for SG.

Posted: **Mon August 23, 2021 9:58 pm**

Audioslave

So this album, and this band, has always confounded me. Taking Chris Cornell and mashing him with Rage Against the Machine in theory always sounded like a terrible idea to me - but I think it was just due to associations I made with Chris’s career and Rage’s sound which just seemed suited to Zach De La Rocha. I have to admit that they made some excellent rock music together ultimately…but it tugs at me that other than spurts like Hypnotize, the pairing doesn’t bring either Chris or the band up to the next level. Cornell isn’t reaching the heights of his Soundgarden days and the rest of the band doesn’t reach to Rage Against the Machine. The sum is less than the parts…but the songs are really good anyway. It makes you ask 2 related existential music fan questions: (1) does an artist really need to keep progressing in quality to justify his/her next project; and (2) do we really need to care?

The answer here is probably just sit back and enjoy some killer rock music and don’t think too much about it.

In the meantime, I do think I was wrong - it was quite a natural pairing. I also think all the many singles off this album are solid, and there’s frankly I don’t think a bad song on here.

Posted: **Mon August 23, 2021 10:17 pm**

Do we really need to care about whether it not an artist has to progress to justify there next project? Or do we really need to care about the next project?

Posted: **Mon August 23, 2021 10:26 pm**

I really liked the first couple Audioslave albums at the time, but the only songs that have really had staying power for me have been the ballads -- songs like "Getaway Car," "Like a Stone," etc. That's the stuff I'd saddle with the label of, "Relatively straightforward, but a great showcase for Cornell's voice." Those are lovely songs.

But most of their stuff just feels like a time capsule of everything that was big and dumb about rock music in the late '90's/early '00's, playing to the strengths of virtually no one involved.

I saw them at Lollapalooza the year after this album came out. Cornell had frosted tips.

Posted: **Mon August 23, 2021 10:29 pm**

Audioslave's debut could've been a great record if they chopped 20 minutes off of it. It's just too bloated, the 2nd half of the album is average rock fare. They also, somehow, managed to leave one of the best songs from the album sessions - We Got The Whip - off of it, ending up as a b-side on the Cochise single.

It's still infinitely better than the two albums which came after it. Haven't listened to those since they were released.

Posted: **Mon August 23, 2021 10:29 pm**

Where's vinylguy!

I need someone in here to help my gush about Audioslave, stat!

Posted: **Mon August 23, 2021 10:33 pm**

I really liked the bookend albums - Out of Exile was alright, but the only one I don't find myself going back to. I liked the direction that they were going with Revelations - shame they broke up after that album

Posted: **Mon August 23, 2021 10:36 pm**

Oh man, Out Of Exile is a great record. It has my all time favorite Audioslave song in it. But the whole thing slays, front to back.

Audioslave just didn't make a bad record. And while I know this is a super unpopular opinion, I prefer those records to almost every Soundgarden record.

Posted: **Mon August 23, 2021 10:48 pm**

epilogue wrote:Oh man, Out Of Exile is a great record. It has my all time favorite Audioslave song in it. But the whole thing slays, front to back.

Audioslave just didn't make a bad record. And while I know this is a super unpopular opinion, I prefer those records to almost every Soundgarden record.

Which song? The Curse?

It's all about the rhythm for me, the boys in Audioslave just can't compete with Cameron/Shepherd imo.

Posted: **Mon August 23, 2021 11:00 pm**

fyfe79 wrote:
epilogue wrote:Oh man, Out Of Exile is a great record. It has my all time favorite Audioslave song in it. But the whole thing slays, front to back.

Audioslave just didn't make a bad record. And while I know this is a super unpopular opinion, I prefer those records to almost every Soundgarden record.
Which song? The Curse?

It's all about the rhythm for me, the boys in Audioslave just can't compete with Cameron/Shepherd imo.

The Worm

Posted: **Mon August 23, 2021 11:31 pm**

epilogue wrote:
fyfe79 wrote:
epilogue wrote:Oh man, Out Of Exile is a great record. It has my all time favorite Audioslave song in it. But the whole thing slays, front to back.

Audioslave just didn't make a bad record. And while I know this is a super unpopular opinion, I prefer those records to almost every Soundgarden record.
Which song? The Curse?

It's all about the rhythm for me, the boys in Audioslave just can't compete with Cameron/Shepherd imo.
The Worm

In the middle of Out of Exile, but (1) the rhythm is exactly right and (2) The Worm is awesome.

Posted: **Mon August 23, 2021 11:34 pm**

I love Audioslave...The self titled might be one of the best debut albums ever, its so fucking powerful and it shows how talented Chris is. I mean the band was in awe with Chris´s talents as a songwriter (Most bridges are from him)....and he shows them how to write and play mid tempo and ballads too.

I love how good the mix between Chris and Rage´s music is...from Shadow Of The Sun, Chochise to The Last Remaining Light or Getaway Car...not to mention Like A Stone of course.

Posted: **Tue August 24, 2021 12:18 am**

VinylGuy wrote:I love Audioslave...The self titled might be one of the best debut albums ever, its so fucking powerful and it shows how talented Chris is. I mean the band was in awe with Chris´s talents as a songwriter (Most bridges are from him)....and he shows them how to write and play mid tempo and ballads too.

I love how good the mix between Chris and Rage´s music is...from Shadow Of The Sun, Chochise to The Last Remaining Light or Getaway Car...not to mention Like A Stone of course.

Yes! My guy.

Posted: **Tue August 24, 2021 1:39 am**

epilogue wrote:
VinylGuy wrote:I love Audioslave...The self titled might be one of the best debut albums ever, its so fucking powerful and it shows how talented Chris is. I mean the band was in awe with Chris´s talents as a songwriter (Most bridges are from him)....and he shows them how to write and play mid tempo and ballads too.

I love how good the mix between Chris and Rage´s music is...from Shadow Of The Sun, Chochise to The Last Remaining Light or Getaway Car...not to mention Like A Stone of course.
Yes! My guy.

We need a debut albums tournament to settle this.

Posted: **Tue August 24, 2021 2:39 am**

I remember being so fucking happy and exited with the Cochise video...Cornell waiting, the guys appearing...those fireworks...that bridge...fuck, thats a great song and such a cool opener.

Red Mosquito

RIP Chris Cornell 1964 - 2017

Re: RIP Chris Cornell 1964 - 2017

Re: RIP Chris Cornell 1964 - 2017

Re: RIP Chris Cornell 1964 - 2017

Re: RIP Chris Cornell 1964 - 2017

Re: RIP Chris Cornell 1964 - 2017

Re: RIP Chris Cornell 1964 - 2017

Re: RIP Chris Cornell 1964 - 2017

Re: RIP Chris Cornell 1964 - 2017

Re: RIP Chris Cornell 1964 - 2017

Re: RIP Chris Cornell 1964 - 2017

Re: RIP Chris Cornell 1964 - 2017

Re: RIP Chris Cornell 1964 - 2017

Re: RIP Chris Cornell 1964 - 2017

Re: RIP Chris Cornell 1964 - 2017

Re: RIP Chris Cornell 1964 - 2017

Re: RIP Chris Cornell 1964 - 2017

Re: RIP Chris Cornell 1964 - 2017

Re: RIP Chris Cornell 1964 - 2017

Re: RIP Chris Cornell 1964 - 2017

Re: RIP Chris Cornell 1964 - 2017