Red Mosquito

If you think about it having seen this one particularly, this is where Del Toro would have shined. The whole sequence in the mountain, we can only imagine how brilliantly he would have done that.

We've been robbed.

Fascinating interview with Tolkiens son about the whole rigmarole
http://www.worldcrunch.com/culture-soci ... qumFMogHTr

Yeah, the statue was confusing. I thought maybe the rock they broke up was the cast, and they'd just made that statue and not let the gold settle. But then why was there a giant gold dwarf-making cast and no giant gold dwarf statues?

And the town was poorly done. "Don't cross the Master but he's a tool and just do whatever." And "the people dislike you and will follow Bard but the one time they have a chance to do that they barely even let him talk."

Why could the kids hear the dragon stuff going down and the entire rest of the town didnt? How did nobody hear the orcs or that fight AT ALL?

Yeah the town needed work. That whole sequence was the momentum killer I was talking about.

Saw it last night, agree with McParadigm.

The barrel scene was a bit ridiculous, and there were plenty of inconsistencies in the town.

Regarding the elves. I remember reading the Hobbit, and having no other experience with Tolkien's world, I wasn't sure what to think of the elves.

I haven't seen the movie but the rowdy description of the wood elves is consistent with the text. There are different lines of elves.

The ordinary elves were insular, protecting their own domains but not unwelcoming generally. These elves are self serving and that goes against the whole idea of them, generally speaking.

Also there were hardly any of them?? The woodland realm appeared to be populated by legolas, thranduil, tauriel and two door wardens and two wine keepers. That was it. I wanted to see more of thranduils kingdom.

I'm not sure how that conflicts with the book. They locked up the dwarves, got drunk at parties and demanded treasure or they would go to war for it. The perfect ram rod straight interpretation of elves in Jackson's LOTR always seemed off to me.

Honestly, I don't really care what's the source material says. It's not like he's got to (or willing to) adhere to it.

I'm only looking at it as a set of movies. So whether or not they were one way in the book, the portrayal here was inconsistent with in the movie universe he's established. He invested all his work in portraying them a very specific way in the first trilogy, and then inexplicably goes in a totally different direction while using some established characters in this one. Whatever the source material says, it doesn't work within the movies.

You're right but in that he is actually following canon if I remember correctly.
But you're also right in that he screwed up the portrayal overall.

Why have have Legolas be unable to get drunk in Two Towers only to have drunken elves asleep in this one?

Maybe their wine is stronger? Bit they get it from laketown so that's not right

McParadigm wrote:Honestly, I don't really care what's the source material says. It's not like he's got to (or willing to) adhere to it.

I'm only looking at it as a set of movies. So whether or not they were one way in the book, the portrayal here was inconsistent with in the movie universe he's established. He invested all his work in portraying them a very specific way in the first trilogy, and then inexplicably goes in a totally different direction while using some established characters in this one. Whatever the source material says, it doesn't work within the movies.

I don't know. That's kind of like saying the first three movies take place in the American Deep South and the next three take place in New England and the American characters act differently and that's not consistent. There are regional and ethnic differences in Elves. It's not a monolithic block.

dimejinky99 wrote:You're right but in that he is actually following canon if I remember correctly.
But you're also right in that he screwed up the portrayal overall.

Why have have Legolas be unable to get drunk in Two Towers only to have drunken elves asleep in this one?

Maybe their wine is stronger? Bit they get it from laketown so that's not right

Maybe Legolas is an alcoholic?

There were troubled elves. Few of them in silmarillion

bada wrote:

McParadigm wrote:Honestly, I don't really care what's the source material says. It's not like he's got to (or willing to) adhere to it.

I'm only looking at it as a set of movies. So whether or not they were one way in the book, the portrayal here was inconsistent with in the movie universe he's established. He invested all his work in portraying them a very specific way in the first trilogy, and then inexplicably goes in a totally different direction while using some established characters in this one. Whatever the source material says, it doesn't work within the movies.

I don't know. That's kind of like saying the first three movies take place in the American Deep South and the next three take place in New England and the American characters act differently and that's not consistent. There are regional and ethnic differences in Elves. It's not a monolithic block.

The point is, if you have to refer people to the source material to explain how or why something happened or is different, then you didn't do a good job of explaining it in the movie. Someone should be able to watch the movies without knowing the source material and have it make sense.

I mean look it would have been smart to have an aside in there where Bilbo says 'these elves seem....different" and Thorin or someone says "these are wood elves they are an entirely different type of menace" or something. Even in the other movies Legolas acted different then the Lothlórien elves. He wasn't stoned faced, dead eyed and slllllooooowwwww tttttaaaallllkkkiiing like them. He was more fierce and alive. Maybe I'm filling in too many blanks.

I mean look it would have been smart to have an aside in there where Bilbo says 'these elves seem....different" and Thorin or someone says "these are wood elves they are an entirely different type of menace" or something.

Perfect!

And see, that's why that's an annoying wtf, is that it's the most obvious sort of easy fix moment...the kind where ditching one simple little bit of totally appropriate dialog creates weird inconsistencies in the movie for anyone who isn't already fully informed regarding source.

Let's write a movie! Actually this entire conversation is meaningless we should really be discussing if Bilbo was really white or not.

In fairness, I'm just remembering that the grievance between these elves and the dwarves is explained in the first movie but particularly in the extended version. Thranduil visits Erebor and Thrain to collect some white gems but they are shown to him then the box closed and the dwarf holding them steps back on command of Thrain.

These presumably are the white gems he tries to make a bargain with Thorin about in this new one.

Maybe legolas just matured as a person (elf?) over the how many years between the hobbit and LOTR? 50 years?

Hil and I are paying for an extra day of daycare so we can have a date and see this movie. I can't decide if that will make me more or less critical of this next we'd.

Very excited for this, nevertheless