Red Mosquito

Thejambi wrote:

Tj wrote:I feel really lucky. Backspacer became over the course of 2009-2010 one of my favorite albums. I know I am like the only one that feels that way, but I really love the album as it speaks to me. Unthought known and Just breathe for me. are in the two slot of Pearl Jam songs as I believe in ties
so at #1 we have Black, Cordaroy and Givento Fly 2# we have Long Road, Ylb, Do the Evolution, Off he goes, Uthought Known and Just Breathe. Yes I think there are major misteps on this record. Sometimes tripping up a little is a good thing it adds a human element to the whole thing. Ten was missing this.Yield had some trip ups as did Vs, but they were and are great albums.

Backspacer is a good album. Eddie and O'Brien got in the way of it being a great album. I spin it quite a bit and enjoy parts of every song but I think it goes back to whoever said it would have been more accepted if the breaks between albums weren't so great.

Since this notion comes up regularly, let me ask you: what you do mean by more accepted? I mean, I seems to me that it's hard to be offended by this album even if you don't like it, it's just kind of forgettable for the most part so I'm not sure how shorter delays would have been able to make it even more easily forgotten.

stip wrote:

EJ wrote:

Tj wrote:Yield had some trip ups

careful there, buddy

I'm with you,Tj

This doesn't help his cause.

stip wrote:

theplatypus wrote:Pearl Jam like to treat their albums like the unveiling of a grand new building. They need countdowns and announcements and teasers and marketing partners and a big song-and-dance. They don't seem to have it in them to record a bunch of new songs and just put them out there. I wonder how much that has to do with the ridiculous time-between-releases vs. actual-music-released ratio of the last decade.

could be, but I continue to think the biggest issue is managing schedules. How many other bands at their level have their members involved in as many side ventures as PJ does? I suspect this creates a a cycle that makes it harder to get together to record. Not the only issue for sure, but what I continue to suspect is the most significant.

There are some I can think of; Wilco, for one, Radiohead. Foo Fighters seem to maintain a pretty good clip despite Grohl being in a ton of projects. Wilco is a good example of a band that has a lot of side projects but can still maintain a good 2-3 years between records.

digster wrote:

stip wrote:

EJ wrote:

Tj wrote:Yield had some trip ups

careful there, buddy

I'm with you,Tj

This doesn't help his cause.

It'll definitely help his cause to know that I don't find the album perfect either. Glad to help.

I still dig GSMF, The Fixer and Speed Of Sound(both versions). That's about it. I don't hate the other songs I'm just not really interested in listening to them over and over again. Once a year or so is enough.

digster wrote:

stip wrote:

EJ wrote:

Tj wrote:Yield had some trip ups

careful there, buddy

I'm with you,Tj

This doesn't help his cause.

Heathen wrote:

Thejambi wrote:

Tj wrote:I feel really lucky. Backspacer became over the course of 2009-2010 one of my favorite albums. I know I am like the only one that feels that way, but I really love the album as it speaks to me. Unthought known and Just breathe for me. are in the two slot of Pearl Jam songs as I believe in ties
so at #1 we have Black, Cordaroy and Givento Fly 2# we have Long Road, Ylb, Do the Evolution, Off he goes, Uthought Known and Just Breathe. Yes I think there are major misteps on this record. Sometimes tripping up a little is a good thing it adds a human element to the whole thing. Ten was missing this.Yield had some trip ups as did Vs, but they were and are great albums.

Backspacer is a good album. Eddie and O'Brien got in the way of it being a great album. I spin it quite a bit and enjoy parts of every song but I think it goes back to whoever said it would have been more accepted if the breaks between albums weren't so great.

Since this notion comes up regularly, let me ask you: what you do mean by more accepted? I mean, I seems to me that it's hard to be offended by this album even if you don't like it, it's just kind of forgettable for the most part so I'm not sure how shorter delays would have been able to make it even more easily forgotten.

Because if they had released it in 09 and then another in 2010/11 it would have been remember that quick fun record they did? it was cool they released a quick little album even though i dont like it that much. Instead of leaving leaving all the things you didnt like about backspacer to fester for 5 years till its transfered onto the band. "they released that short poppy i didnt like that much that one time" "they cant be asked to write music anymore that isnt short and poppy and happy and they're lazy and boring and old and fat fuck mikes guitar tone".

All of this assumes that you would have liked the album that followed backspacer though.

And i'm not saying any of the above is rational.

stupidmop wrote:

Heathen wrote:

Thejambi wrote:

Tj wrote:I feel really lucky. Backspacer became over the course of 2009-2010 one of my favorite albums. I know I am like the only one that feels that way, but I really love the album as it speaks to me. Unthought known and Just breathe for me. are in the two slot of Pearl Jam songs as I believe in ties
so at #1 we have Black, Cordaroy and Givento Fly 2# we have Long Road, Ylb, Do the Evolution, Off he goes, Uthought Known and Just Breathe. Yes I think there are major misteps on this record. Sometimes tripping up a little is a good thing it adds a human element to the whole thing. Ten was missing this.Yield had some trip ups as did Vs, but they were and are great albums.

Backspacer is a good album. Eddie and O'Brien got in the way of it being a great album. I spin it quite a bit and enjoy parts of every song but I think it goes back to whoever said it would have been more accepted if the breaks between albums weren't so great.

Since this notion comes up regularly, let me ask you: what you do mean by more accepted? I mean, I seems to me that it's hard to be offended by this album even if you don't like it, it's just kind of forgettable for the most part so I'm not sure how shorter delays would have been able to make it even more easily forgotten.

Because if they had released it in 09 and then another in 2010/11 it would have been remember that quick fun record they did? it was cool they released a quick little album even though i dont like it that much. Instead of leaving leaving all the things you didnt like about backspacer to fester for 5 years till its transfered onto the band. "they released that short poppy i didnt like that much that one time" "they cant be asked to write music anymore that isnt short and poppy and happy and they're lazy and boring and old and fat fuck mikes guitar tone".

All of this assumes that you would have liked the album that followed backspacer though.

And i'm not saying any of the above is rational.

I get that but what I mean is, isn't that already how BS is seen for the most part? Does anyone really fester for 5 years about this?

Heathen wrote:

Thejambi wrote:

Tj wrote:I feel really lucky. Backspacer became over the course of 2009-2010 one of my favorite albums. I know I am like the only one that feels that way, but I really love the album as it speaks to me. Unthought known and Just breathe for me. are in the two slot of Pearl Jam songs as I believe in ties
so at #1 we have Black, Cordaroy and Givento Fly 2# we have Long Road, Ylb, Do the Evolution, Off he goes, Uthought Known and Just Breathe. Yes I think there are major misteps on this record. Sometimes tripping up a little is a good thing it adds a human element to the whole thing. Ten was missing this.Yield had some trip ups as did Vs, but they were and are great albums.

Backspacer is a good album. Eddie and O'Brien got in the way of it being a great album. I spin it quite a bit and enjoy parts of every song but I think it goes back to whoever said it would have been more accepted if the breaks between albums weren't so great.

Since this notion comes up regularly, let me ask you: what you do mean by more accepted? I mean, I seems to me that it's hard to be offended by this album even if you don't like it, it's just kind of forgettable for the most part so I'm not sure how shorter delays would have been able to make it even more easily forgotten.

you didn't ask me but I'll butt in since I've made that argument. Context and expectations matter. The album that is your current record is asked to shoulder who the band is at that time (if the band is active, obviously). It is what pearl jam is. And backspacer is not written to be a flagship record, and the songs can't easily bear the weight of 8 years of waiting for new music.

It would be easier to appreciate backspacer in the spirit in which it was probably written if it doesn't have to do all that. And that does make a difference. It's like the difference between going to see the Avengers because you want a lot of great spectacle or going to see the Avengers because you are expecting serious ruminations on the psychology of being a super hero and whether or not democratic societies can sustain them.

I don't think people would necessarily view Backspacer as a less shitty record than they do if there had been a quicker follow up, but I doubt it would have mattered as much, unless the album following it was of a similar quality or worse.

Heathen wrote:

stupidmop wrote:

Heathen wrote:

Thejambi wrote:

Tj wrote:I feel really lucky. Backspacer became over the course of 2009-2010 one of my favorite albums. I know I am like the only one that feels that way, but I really love the album as it speaks to me. Unthought known and Just breathe for me. are in the two slot of Pearl Jam songs as I believe in ties
so at #1 we have Black, Cordaroy and Givento Fly 2# we have Long Road, Ylb, Do the Evolution, Off he goes, Uthought Known and Just Breathe. Yes I think there are major misteps on this record. Sometimes tripping up a little is a good thing it adds a human element to the whole thing. Ten was missing this.Yield had some trip ups as did Vs, but they were and are great albums.

Backspacer is a good album. Eddie and O'Brien got in the way of it being a great album. I spin it quite a bit and enjoy parts of every song but I think it goes back to whoever said it would have been more accepted if the breaks between albums weren't so great.

Since this notion comes up regularly, let me ask you: what you do mean by more accepted? I mean, I seems to me that it's hard to be offended by this album even if you don't like it, it's just kind of forgettable for the most part so I'm not sure how shorter delays would have been able to make it even more easily forgotten.

Because if they had released it in 09 and then another in 2010/11 it would have been remember that quick fun record they did? it was cool they released a quick little album even though i dont like it that much. Instead of leaving leaving all the things you didnt like about backspacer to fester for 5 years till its transfered onto the band. "they released that short poppy i didnt like that much that one time" "they cant be asked to write music anymore that isnt short and poppy and happy and they're lazy and boring and old and fat fuck mikes guitar tone".

All of this assumes that you would have liked the album that followed backspacer though.

And i'm not saying any of the above is rational.

I get that but what I mean is, isn't that already how BS is seen for the most part? Does anyone really fester for 5 years about this?

have you read this board? Quite a few people have. You haven't, since you largely no longer care and aren't emotionally invested in the music. I used to really like Alice in Chains, and couldn't make it through their new record (and didn't like their old one), but I'm not bothered by it since AiC is a band I used to like whose new material I'll check out to see if they come up with anything I like.

An artist I care a lot more about is going to have a lot more riding on each release, as it has to bear the weight of my fandom until the next one.


look at the mark lanegan/isobel cambell collaborations. Lanegan is my favorite artist of the last decade. Those albums are okay. A few songs I like, but a lot of stuff I could probably take or leave. Since Lanegan puts out like 3 albums a year I don't really care, and can appreciate those albums for what they are. If it was all I was getting for several years I'd go into each listen with more resentment and expectations the record can't (and shouldn't have to) match.

stip wrote:

Heathen wrote:

Thejambi wrote:

Tj wrote:I feel really lucky. Backspacer became over the course of 2009-2010 one of my favorite albums. I know I am like the only one that feels that way, but I really love the album as it speaks to me. Unthought known and Just breathe for me. are in the two slot of Pearl Jam songs as I believe in ties
so at #1 we have Black, Cordaroy and Givento Fly 2# we have Long Road, Ylb, Do the Evolution, Off he goes, Uthought Known and Just Breathe. Yes I think there are major misteps on this record. Sometimes tripping up a little is a good thing it adds a human element to the whole thing. Ten was missing this.Yield had some trip ups as did Vs, but they were and are great albums.

Backspacer is a good album. Eddie and O'Brien got in the way of it being a great album. I spin it quite a bit and enjoy parts of every song but I think it goes back to whoever said it would have been more accepted if the breaks between albums weren't so great.

Since this notion comes up regularly, let me ask you: what you do mean by more accepted? I mean, I seems to me that it's hard to be offended by this album even if you don't like it, it's just kind of forgettable for the most part so I'm not sure how shorter delays would have been able to make it even more easily forgotten.

you didn't ask me but I'll butt in since I've made that argument. Context and expectations matter. The album that is your current record is asked to shoulder who the band is at that time (if the band is active, obviously). It is what pearl jam is. And backspacer is not written to be a flagship record, and the songs can't easily bear the weight of 8 years of waiting for new music.

It would be easier to appreciate backspacer in the spirit in which it was probably written if it doesn't have to do all that. And that does make a difference. It's like the difference between going to see the Avengers because you want a lot of great spectacle or going to see the Avengers because you are expecting serious ruminations on the psychology of being a super hero and whether or not democratic societies can sustain them.

Do we actually know that PJ wanted this album to be taken as nothing more than a brainless action movie?

Heathen wrote:

stupidmop wrote:

Heathen wrote:

Thejambi wrote:

Tj wrote:I feel really lucky. Backspacer became over the course of 2009-2010 one of my favorite albums. I know I am like the only one that feels that way, but I really love the album as it speaks to me. Unthought known and Just breathe for me. are in the two slot of Pearl Jam songs as I believe in ties
so at #1 we have Black, Cordaroy and Givento Fly 2# we have Long Road, Ylb, Do the Evolution, Off he goes, Uthought Known and Just Breathe. Yes I think there are major misteps on this record. Sometimes tripping up a little is a good thing it adds a human element to the whole thing. Ten was missing this.Yield had some trip ups as did Vs, but they were and are great albums.

Backspacer is a good album. Eddie and O'Brien got in the way of it being a great album. I spin it quite a bit and enjoy parts of every song but I think it goes back to whoever said it would have been more accepted if the breaks between albums weren't so great.

Since this notion comes up regularly, let me ask you: what you do mean by more accepted? I mean, I seems to me that it's hard to be offended by this album even if you don't like it, it's just kind of forgettable for the most part so I'm not sure how shorter delays would have been able to make it even more easily forgotten.

Because if they had released it in 09 and then another in 2010/11 it would have been remember that quick fun record they did? it was cool they released a quick little album even though i dont like it that much. Instead of leaving leaving all the things you didnt like about backspacer to fester for 5 years till its transfered onto the band. "they released that short poppy i didnt like that much that one time" "they cant be asked to write music anymore that isnt short and poppy and happy and they're lazy and boring and old and fat fuck mikes guitar tone".

All of this assumes that you would have liked the album that followed backspacer though.

And i'm not saying any of the above is rational.

I get that but what I mean is, isn't that already how BS is seen for the most part? Does anyone really fester for 5 years about this?

You've been reading RM over those 5 years, right?

Heathen wrote:
Do we actually know that PJ wanted this album to be taken as nothing more than a brainless action movie?

There are several quotes about their desire to create "a more catchy, disposable, immediate, poppier" album.

digster wrote:I don't think people would necessarily view Backspacer as a less shitty record than they do if there had been a quicker follow up, but I doubt it would have mattered as much, unless the album following it was of a similar quality or worse.

I do, although obviously this won't be the case with everyone, and I hardly think Backspacer suddenly becomes people's favorite record. Your reaction to it will be bound by your overall opinion of the songs. Riot Act is instructive here, I think, in the RM context. Riot Act has been significantly rehabilitated on this board over the last decade, and I don't think it's because the songs needed more time to grow, or anything like that.

For many fans, the dreary overtones on that album, the pall that hung over much of it, was really hard to take when it was the standard bearer for the band. it was what pearl jam was, and many people didn't like it. Several records later, when Riot Act is a moment in the catalog rather than the embodiment of what pearl jam is, it is easier to appreciate the choices on their own merits, and interact with the songs for what they are, rather than what you want them to be. Riot Act is still probably at the bottom for me, but I relate to it on its own terms, rather than measuring the songs against what my ideal pearl jam album should be.

Heathen wrote:

stip wrote:

Heathen wrote:

Thejambi wrote:

Tj wrote:I feel really lucky. Backspacer became over the course of 2009-2010 one of my favorite albums. I know I am like the only one that feels that way, but I really love the album as it speaks to me. Unthought known and Just breathe for me. are in the two slot of Pearl Jam songs as I believe in ties
so at #1 we have Black, Cordaroy and Givento Fly 2# we have Long Road, Ylb, Do the Evolution, Off he goes, Uthought Known and Just Breathe. Yes I think there are major misteps on this record. Sometimes tripping up a little is a good thing it adds a human element to the whole thing. Ten was missing this.Yield had some trip ups as did Vs, but they were and are great albums.

Backspacer is a good album. Eddie and O'Brien got in the way of it being a great album. I spin it quite a bit and enjoy parts of every song but I think it goes back to whoever said it would have been more accepted if the breaks between albums weren't so great.

Since this notion comes up regularly, let me ask you: what you do mean by more accepted? I mean, I seems to me that it's hard to be offended by this album even if you don't like it, it's just kind of forgettable for the most part so I'm not sure how shorter delays would have been able to make it even more easily forgotten.

you didn't ask me but I'll butt in since I've made that argument. Context and expectations matter. The album that is your current record is asked to shoulder who the band is at that time (if the band is active, obviously). It is what pearl jam is. And backspacer is not written to be a flagship record, and the songs can't easily bear the weight of 8 years of waiting for new music.

It would be easier to appreciate backspacer in the spirit in which it was probably written if it doesn't have to do all that. And that does make a difference. It's like the difference between going to see the Avengers because you want a lot of great spectacle or going to see the Avengers because you are expecting serious ruminations on the psychology of being a super hero and whether or not democratic societies can sustain them.

Do we actually know that PJ wanted this album to be taken as nothing more than a brainless action movie?

I sure hope they did

Note to self: start every new thread you create in PJ chat with

PEARL JAM'S LAST TWO ALBUMS SUCKED BUT I KNOW THEY CAN STILL PUT OUT GOOD MUSIC SO WHY DON'T THEY AND EVERYONE ON RM AGREES WITH THIS.

And backspacer may have take two records to settle into its permanent place in pearl jam history since LB will be judged AGAINST the album that preceded it, in the same way that S/T felt so vibrant right off the bat because it sounded so different from Riot Act, and tried to address what some people saw as the sins of that album.

harmless wrote:

Heathen wrote:

stupidmop wrote:

Heathen wrote:

Thejambi wrote:

Tj wrote:I feel really lucky. Backspacer became over the course of 2009-2010 one of my favorite albums. I know I am like the only one that feels that way, but I really love the album as it speaks to me. Unthought known and Just breathe for me. are in the two slot of Pearl Jam songs as I believe in ties
so at #1 we have Black, Cordaroy and Givento Fly 2# we have Long Road, Ylb, Do the Evolution, Off he goes, Uthought Known and Just Breathe. Yes I think there are major misteps on this record. Sometimes tripping up a little is a good thing it adds a human element to the whole thing. Ten was missing this.Yield had some trip ups as did Vs, but they were and are great albums.

Backspacer is a good album. Eddie and O'Brien got in the way of it being a great album. I spin it quite a bit and enjoy parts of every song but I think it goes back to whoever said it would have been more accepted if the breaks between albums weren't so great.

Since this notion comes up regularly, let me ask you: what you do mean by more accepted? I mean, I seems to me that it's hard to be offended by this album even if you don't like it, it's just kind of forgettable for the most part so I'm not sure how shorter delays would have been able to make it even more easily forgotten.

Because if they had released it in 09 and then another in 2010/11 it would have been remember that quick fun record they did? it was cool they released a quick little album even though i dont like it that much. Instead of leaving leaving all the things you didnt like about backspacer to fester for 5 years till its transfered onto the band. "they released that short poppy i didnt like that much that one time" "they cant be asked to write music anymore that isnt short and poppy and happy and they're lazy and boring and old and fat fuck mikes guitar tone".

All of this assumes that you would have liked the album that followed backspacer though.

And i'm not saying any of the above is rational.

I get that but what I mean is, isn't that already how BS is seen for the most part? Does anyone really fester for 5 years about this?

You've been reading RM over those 5 years, right?

I don't think this kind of reaction is more than marginal and I wouldn't say it's only because of Backspacer. It seems to me that the most hardcore negative people you see are those that started to see the band decline from S/T on, I don't think BS alone would have been reason enough for anyone to be up in arms against the band.

the fact that S/T is not a classic certainly exacerbates this.