Red Mosquito

The last funeral for someone close to me I was a part of was my Mother in Law's funeral. And there were multiple things I thought we should say or do that were the right thing to say or do that were vetoed because of the complicated survivor dynamics. I suspect that's not unusual

theplatypus wrote:Help me out here, is the operating theory now that there was some sort of falling out between EV + Cornell? Or that he doesn't get along with Cornell's wife? I missed that part

I think the later? Maybe both? It's all speculation and judgement and twitter grief rants so I haven't followed that closely.

stip wrote:these are very easy judgements to make about very complicated moments, made a world away by strangers who lack almost any relevant context beyond what they would do in the imaginary scenario created in their head that may have next to no connection to the actual circumstances surrounding the event.

I went to the funeral of a guy I laid off who committed suicide. I went to support the others that I work with who were very distraught. I learned from his father at the funeral that he always said great things about his time working with us, even after he was let go. It was a very difficult and emotional time for me, but I understood my difficulties were unimportant, and that there were many people there who were glad that we came.

You're right, though, I never sang in a rock song duet with him. So, who am I to judge

hlniv wrote:

stip wrote:these are very easy judgements to make about very complicated moments, made a world away by strangers who lack almost any relevant context beyond what they would do in the imaginary scenario created in their head that may have next to no connection to the actual circumstances surrounding the event.

I went to the funeral of a guy I laid off who committed suicide. I went to support the others that I work with who were very distraught. I learned from his father at the funeral that he always said great things about his time working with us, even after he was let go. It was a very difficult and emotional time for me, but I understood my difficulties were unimportant, and that there were many people there who were glad that we came.

You're right, though, I never sang in a rock song duet with him. So, who am I to judge

And what would have happened if afterwards you found out that this guy was incredibly bitter about the firing, and it ruined his last months, and the family was miserable that you came? Did you do the right thing?

What if his wife wanted you there, but his children didn't?

what if he always secretly wished you two had sang a duet together, rock song or otherwise, and that drove him to suicide?

I would never attend services in that scenario. If just one loved one resents you being there you have stepped over the line and those just aren't good odds.

stip wrote:

hlniv wrote:

stip wrote:these are very easy judgements to make about very complicated moments, made a world away by strangers who lack almost any relevant context beyond what they would do in the imaginary scenario created in their head that may have next to no connection to the actual circumstances surrounding the event.

I went to the funeral of a guy I laid off who committed suicide. I went to support the others that I work with who were very distraught. I learned from his father at the funeral that he always said great things about his time working with us, even after he was let go. It was a very difficult and emotional time for me, but I understood my difficulties were unimportant, and that there were many people there who were glad that we came.

You're right, though, I never sang in a rock song duet with him. So, who am I to judge

And what would have happened if afterwards you found out that this guy was incredibly bitter about the firing, and it ruined his last months, and the family was miserable that you came? Did you do the right thing?

Yes, because suicide is not just about losing your job or taking extra pills. It's more than that. It comes from deeper places than those simple things. And the people left behind are always better off surrounded by others willing to continue being people and holding on to the lives that remain. We went because we wanted everyone there to know that he actually did mean something to us and that we cared. I think his father and brother truly appreciated that and would have even if his job loss directly contributed to his act. Which it didn't.

There's only like three people outside of my immediate family I'd fly halfway around the world for. I doubt they were as close as you psychos think. Give him a break.

verb_to_trust wrote:I would never attend services in that scenario. If just one loved one resents you being there you have stepped over the line and those just aren't good odds.

maybe just never go to anyone's funeral then, just in case.

hlniv wrote:

stip wrote:

hlniv wrote:

stip wrote:these are very easy judgements to make about very complicated moments, made a world away by strangers who lack almost any relevant context beyond what they would do in the imaginary scenario created in their head that may have next to no connection to the actual circumstances surrounding the event.

I went to the funeral of a guy I laid off who committed suicide. I went to support the others that I work with who were very distraught. I learned from his father at the funeral that he always said great things about his time working with us, even after he was let go. It was a very difficult and emotional time for me, but I understood my difficulties were unimportant, and that there were many people there who were glad that we came.

You're right, though, I never sang in a rock song duet with him. So, who am I to judge

And what would have happened if afterwards you found out that this guy was incredibly bitter about the firing, and it ruined his last months, and the family was miserable that you came? Did you do the right thing?

Yes, because suicide is not just about losing your job or taking extra pills. It's more than that. It comes from deeper places than those simple things. And the people left behind are always better off surrounded by others willing to continue being people and holding on to the lives that remain. We went because we wanted everyone there to know that he actually did mean something to us and that we cared. I think his father and brother truly appreciated that and would have even if his job loss directly contributed to his act. Which it didn't.

And hopefully you did the right thing in that particular set of circumstances. But I would be wary of reading that particular happy ending onto every iteration of this story, especially not knowing any of the players involved (as you did in your example).

Do you think anybody in the band would attend Dave A's funeral?

Do you think Dave A's family would want Eddie there?

theplatypus wrote:Do you think anybody in the band would attend Dave A's funeral?

they'd probably throw a party.

BurtReynolds wrote:There's only like three people outside of my immediate family I'd fly halfway around the world for. I doubt they were as close as you psychos think. Give him a break.

You don't have a swimmable money pit, though, Burt

what if Eddie didn't attend, but offered to pay for the funeral?

This thread is going to make me kill myself.

Too soon?

Sorry, too soon.

1000% with stip on this. And not b/c it's Eddie Vedder. But b/c I've been to plenty of funerals where the interpersonal dynamics are way more complicated than, "You just show up no matter what." The world (or at least, my world) is not nearly that black and white.

In ideal circumstances, of course every one who loved the deceased should absolutely be there. And maybe Ed is simply being a dick, but I highly doubt it. My uneducated guess is that there is more at play here, especially considering the unhinged tweets from the mother-in-law that continue on.

Perhaps Ed never liked Vicky Cornell. Perhaps no one did. Have none of you ever been in a situation where a friend has been in a shitty relationship for years and you were desperate to get them out of it?

But that's why this is so difficult. That's just one of a hundred scenarios and we just don't know. But my imagination is certainly big enough (and backed up by enough real life experience) that I can easily see all the different why's and wherefore's that would make this a complicated situation.

It's funny how judgmental we all get when a celebrity is involved. Immediately, all sense of nuance goes out the door and we forget how messy and bewildering real life can be, especially when someone dies and especially when someone dies under the circumstances Chris died under.

If anything, the most reductive and simple-minded scenario to Eddie Vedder not showing up at his longtime friend/mentor's funeral is that he's just a selfish dick. I know you guys love doing the Ed-only-likes-money schtick but come on.

It doesn't take an off-the-charts EQ to think that maybe there is a lot at play, in fact decades at play, that contribute to this situation.

Or, I don't know, instead of rock gods CHRIS CORNELL and EDDIE VEDDER, just picture them as two buddies you went to high school with. Take them off their pedestal and you'll realize they go through the same crazy, trite, childish, complex bullshit we all go through. They're allowed.