I think stip just saw my tournament plan and had an aneurysm.
Re: Best of Grunge Tournament 1991-1995
Posted: Tue August 01, 2017 7:58 am
by Anders
Sgt. Crackpot wrote:I think stip just saw my tournament plan and had an aneurysm.
It was a funny post, but if you were even 0,1% serious, then tournaments 2 through 4 wouldn't hold a lot for these six bands. So would be fairly easy for Stip.
Soundgarden had their last big release in 1996 (until they reunited), Stone Temple Pilots their last solid releases in 96 and 99, Smashing Pumpkins the same in 98 and 2000, even with live releases 96 was the last big year for Nirvana and Alice In Chains (until AiC reunited). Of course Pearl Jam continued with solid releases, especially in 98 and 2000. But that was sort of my point, nothing happened in 97, little between 98-2000 (some of the music even changed), and nothing afterwards apart from Pearl Jam. It was 1996 that was the last big year of the wave that started in 91.
Grunge may have started in 1984 with Green River, and 88-90 had some decent releases, bands forming, Andy Wood dying, the great 1991-albums being made during 1990. But it was 1991 that was the start of the wave that hit the world from these bands, and it's a fair place to start.
Re: Best of Grunge Tournament 1991-1995
Posted: Tue August 01, 2017 10:25 am
by stip
Anders wrote:Stip posted this:
"Like most of us of a certain age, grunge was my formative musical experience, and everything resonated incredibly powerfully. Even my lesser lights in the big 6 (I always included STP and the Pumpkins-it feels right spiritually, if not geographically) were still tremendous talents, and I just couldn't believe that there was this much talent coming out of this one moment in time. 1991-1996 saw Ten, Nevermind, Gish, Badmotorfinger, Core, Dirt, Vs, Siamese Dream, In Utero, Jar of Flies, Vitalogy, Purple, Mellon Collie…, No Code, Tiny Music…, Down on the Upside. 6 bands. 5 years. 16 classic albums. Four genre-defining singers coming out of the same god damned town. What a time to find yourself first opening up to music. This became the benchmark against which we all came to measure what music could do. Even if we left these songs behind we expected new music to make us feel the same way."
i had to go to 96. It was about CC so I had to have DotU in there.
i think there is an arguement to be made that DotU, No Code, and Tiny Music have all three of these bands starting to move in a direction that puts some real distance between that moment and the early 90s records. The bands still mattered for one more year, but the transition away from grunge had begun in earnest
Really those three albums are out because their inclusion makes the tournament math awkward, and I think there is a case that can be made on the merits to justify their exclusion.
Re: Best of Grunge Tournament 1991-1995
Posted: Tue August 01, 2017 11:04 am
by wease
No Dirty Frank?
Re: Best of Grunge Tournament 1991-1995
Posted: Tue August 01, 2017 11:20 am
by Anders
stip wrote:
Anders wrote:Stip posted this:
"Like most of us of a certain age, grunge was my formative musical experience, and everything resonated incredibly powerfully. Even my lesser lights in the big 6 (I always included STP and the Pumpkins-it feels right spiritually, if not geographically) were still tremendous talents, and I just couldn't believe that there was this much talent coming out of this one moment in time. 1991-1996 saw Ten, Nevermind, Gish, Badmotorfinger, Core, Dirt, Vs, Siamese Dream, In Utero, Jar of Flies, Vitalogy, Purple, Mellon Collie…, No Code, Tiny Music…, Down on the Upside. 6 bands. 5 years. 16 classic albums. Four genre-defining singers coming out of the same god damned town. What a time to find yourself first opening up to music. This became the benchmark against which we all came to measure what music could do. Even if we left these songs behind we expected new music to make us feel the same way."
i had to go to 96. It was about CC so I had to have DotU in there.
i think there is an arguement to be made that DotU, No Code, and Tiny Music have all three of these bands starting to move in a direction that puts some real distance between that moment and the early 90s records. The bands still mattered for one more year, but the transition away from grunge had begun in earnest
Really those three albums are out because their inclusion makes the tournament math awkward, and I think there is a case that can be made on the merits to justify their exclusion.
DotU is pure 90s Soundgarden, different from the 80s for sure, but not a far leap from Superunknown. Tiny Music is also classic STP, with some of their signature songs. No Code is probably the greatest leap, which is probably why it received a mixed reaction upon arrival, despite still being among the best albums Pearl Jam has released. Even From the Muddy Banks of the Wishkah, AiC Unplugged, and the 96 singles and concerts from Smashing Pumpkins are vital parts of these years in these six bands careers.
I do understand the math issue. If you were to include more, you would probably need a smaller preliminary round, so that you end up with the same first round number as planned. That's how they do it in football.
You're in charge, and great stuff putting the tournament together. Just would feel more right with 96 included. Still, it will be fun.
Re: Best of Grunge Tournament 1991-1995
Posted: Tue August 01, 2017 11:35 am
by stip
ill play around with it tonight, and see what i can do.
Re: Best of Grunge Tournament 1991-1995
Posted: Tue August 01, 2017 11:41 am
by doone
Maybe get rid if some Pumpkins, they seem to have a lot of albums. They can't all be grungy.
Re: Best of Grunge Tournament 1991-1995
Posted: Tue August 01, 2017 12:38 pm
by stip
i would have rather had facelift than gish, but dates are dates
Re: Best of Grunge Tournament 1991-1995
Posted: Tue August 01, 2017 12:50 pm
by stip
So thinking this through, we have 16 non album tracks in this thing, plus ToTd (10), Mad Season (10), and two b-sides albums with 14 (PI) and 15 (I)
Down on the Upside has 16 songs
No Code has 13
Tiny Music has 12
So I could add those three albums (41) songs and then do a preliminary tournament of those above 65 songs (plus any relevant 96 b-sides like Leaving Here or Kyle Petty) with the top 24 entering the tournament.
I could also add Facelift (12) and make it the top 12 songs from that group.
Or I could leave things the way they are.
Thoughts?
Re: Best of Grunge Tournament 1991-1995
Posted: Tue August 01, 2017 2:18 pm
by Self
What about Bush?
Re: Best of Grunge Tournament 1991-1995
Posted: Tue August 01, 2017 2:19 pm
by tragabigzanda
Re: Best of Grunge Tournament 1991-1995
Posted: Tue August 01, 2017 2:21 pm
by Jorge
Those bands are more grungy than the Smashing Pumpkins at least
Re: Best of Grunge Tournament 1991-1995
Posted: Tue August 01, 2017 2:23 pm
by Self
theplatypus wrote:Those bands are more grungy than the Smashing Pumpkins at least
Yes. I just want the Smashing Pumpkins out.
Re: Best of Grunge Tournament 1991-1995
Posted: Tue August 01, 2017 2:24 pm
by Self
I want you out too, Jorge.
Re: Best of Grunge Tournament 1991-1995
Posted: Tue August 01, 2017 2:24 pm
by E.H. Ruddock
Self wrote:What about Bush?
Glycerine should win this whole thing
Re: Best of Grunge Tournament 1991-1995
Posted: Tue August 01, 2017 2:24 pm
by tragabigzanda
Re: Best of Grunge Tournament 1991-1995
Posted: Tue August 01, 2017 2:25 pm
by Self
E.H. Ruddock wrote:
Self wrote:What about Bush?
Glycerine should win this whole thing
A bold statement, my friend. Very bold.
Re: Best of Grunge Tournament 1991-1995
Posted: Tue August 01, 2017 2:26 pm
by E.H. Ruddock
Self wrote:
E.H. Ruddock wrote:
Self wrote:What about Bush?
Glycerine should win this whole thing
A bold statement, my friend. Very bold.
Gavin Rossdale had his arm around me last year. I never washed that shirt.
Re: Best of Grunge Tournament 1991-1995
Posted: Tue August 01, 2017 2:27 pm
by Self
E.H. Ruddock wrote:
Self wrote:
E.H. Ruddock wrote:
Self wrote:What about Bush?
Glycerine should win this whole thing
A bold statement, my friend. Very bold.
Gavin Rossdale had his arm around me last year. I never washed that shirt.
Did it smell like Gwen at all?
Re: Best of Grunge Tournament 1991-1995
Posted: Tue August 01, 2017 2:28 pm
by tragabigzanda
tragabigzanda wrote:
tragabigzanda wrote:Top 10 maybe?
Hello Morning
Close Captioned
The Kill
Place/Position
Do You Like Me?
Latest Disgrace
Recap Modotti
Nightshop
Break
Life & Limb
