Red Mosquito

Steve Albini wrote:Whenever there's active promotion on the part of somebody else, whenever I see somebody all dolled up for a fancy photograph and someone's handing out flyers or whenever there's active promotion for something like that, as an imposition on my day, I hate all those people and I want them to fail. I have a visceral reaction to advertising and promotion. There's just something about salesmanship that grates on me on a very base level and I react very negatively towards it. I want those people to suffer and I want their enterprises to fail.

Steve Albini wrote:Whenever there's active promotion on the part of somebody else, whenever I see somebody all dolled up for a fancy photograph and someone's handing out flyers or whenever there's active promotion for something like that, as an imposition on my day, I hate all those people and I want them to fail. I have a visceral reaction to advertising and promotion. There's just something about salesmanship that grates on me on a very base level and I react very negatively towards it. I want those people to suffer and I want their enterprises to fail.

tragabigzanda wrote:

Anders wrote:Tombstone is better than Heat. I agree, on an objective level, Goodfellas is tough to beat.

Out of the modern westerns (1985 onwards), Tombstone is one of the very best.

Out of all movies of all genres, of all time, Heat is one of the very best

Anders wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:

Anders wrote:Tombstone is better than Heat. I agree, on an objective level, Goodfellas is tough to beat.

Out of the modern westerns (1985 onwards), Tombstone is one of the very best.

Out of all movies of all genres, of all time, Heat is one of the very best

I can’t agree with that. It’s pretty good.

Mickey wrote:

Anders wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:

Anders wrote:Tombstone is better than Heat. I agree, on an objective level, Goodfellas is tough to beat.

Out of the modern westerns (1985 onwards), Tombstone is one of the very best.

Out of all movies of all genres, of all time, Heat is one of the very best

I can’t agree with that. It’s pretty good.

Which thread were you posting in when you watched Heat?

Steve Albini wrote:Whenever there's active promotion on the part of somebody else, whenever I see somebody all dolled up for a fancy photograph and someone's handing out flyers or whenever there's active promotion for something like that, as an imposition on my day, I hate all those people and I want them to fail. I have a visceral reaction to advertising and promotion. There's just something about salesmanship that grates on me on a very base level and I react very negatively towards it. I want those people to suffer and I want their enterprises to fail.

Steve Albini wrote:Whenever there's active promotion on the part of somebody else, whenever I see somebody all dolled up for a fancy photograph and someone's handing out flyers or whenever there's active promotion for something like that, as an imposition on my day, I hate all those people and I want them to fail. I have a visceral reaction to advertising and promotion. There's just something about salesmanship that grates on me on a very base level and I react very negatively towards it. I want those people to suffer and I want their enterprises to fail.

tragabigzanda wrote:I don’t think of Heat as a Michael Mann movie, nor a DeNiro movie, nor a Pacino movie. It’s a cinephile movie. It does things with film making techniques — lighting, plot, character development — that transcend the names of its creators to offer something deeply enjoyable as a pure example of the power of the medium.

Goodfellas is much the same.

I can’t say that about Tombstone. It’s a great western! It’s not going to be taught in film making school 50 years from now.

Steve Albini wrote:Whenever there's active promotion on the part of somebody else, whenever I see somebody all dolled up for a fancy photograph and someone's handing out flyers or whenever there's active promotion for something like that, as an imposition on my day, I hate all those people and I want them to fail. I have a visceral reaction to advertising and promotion. There's just something about salesmanship that grates on me on a very base level and I react very negatively towards it. I want those people to suffer and I want their enterprises to fail.

Steve Albini wrote:Whenever there's active promotion on the part of somebody else, whenever I see somebody all dolled up for a fancy photograph and someone's handing out flyers or whenever there's active promotion for something like that, as an imposition on my day, I hate all those people and I want them to fail. I have a visceral reaction to advertising and promotion. There's just something about salesmanship that grates on me on a very base level and I react very negatively towards it. I want those people to suffer and I want their enterprises to fail.

tragabigzanda wrote:

Anders wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:I don’t think of Heat as a Michael Mann movie, nor a DeNiro movie, nor a Pacino movie. It’s a cinephile movie. It does things with film making techniques — lighting, plot, character development — that transcend the names of its creators to offer something deeply enjoyable as a pure example of the power of the medium.

Goodfellas is much the same.

I can’t say that about Tombstone. It’s a great western! It’s not going to be taught in film making school 50 years from now.

I agree that Heat is very well made movie. Nevertheless, the acting in Tombstone, the relationships between the characters, the detail in dialogue, costumes, guns, historical accuracy, makes it a true standalone movie. One which had been carefully studied by many directors. Also Val Kilmer’s role is far and away better than any performance in Heat. The climax of the movie is delivered with a greater pathos than anything Heat is close to.

Oh my god Anders!Heat has one of the best film climaxes of all time!

Steve Albini wrote:Whenever there's active promotion on the part of somebody else, whenever I see somebody all dolled up for a fancy photograph and someone's handing out flyers or whenever there's active promotion for something like that, as an imposition on my day, I hate all those people and I want them to fail. I have a visceral reaction to advertising and promotion. There's just something about salesmanship that grates on me on a very base level and I react very negatively towards it. I want those people to suffer and I want their enterprises to fail.

tragabigzanda wrote:The only thing that keeps Goodfellas a notch below Heat is time. It’s techniques have been so widely replicated now that I’m skeptical it would feel as impactful for user dad because he’s seen some of its tricks employed elsewhere since.

dad wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:The only thing that keeps Goodfellas a notch below Heat is time. It’s techniques have been so widely replicated now that I’m skeptical it would feel as impactful for user dad because he’s seen some of its tricks employed elsewhere since.

I feel like you’re giving me way too much credit here. I’m not that perceptive. I appreciate it though.

tragabigzanda wrote:

Anders wrote:With that said, filming techniques is not what gets my pulse going. A great story, great acting, great suspense (or humor if that kind of movie), and a great plot does.

Yeah I think this is a fair place to land. Different things to value in these movies. The story in Heat is also great, but it’s a bit dense and impenetrable; Tombstone is maybe more immediately satisfying in that regard.